64: Boosting Product Adoption with Video with Erica Hanna of Puke Rainbows Creative

When life gives you rain, puke a rainbow. That’s the motto of Erica Hanna, Emmy Award winner and owner of Puke Rainbows Creative. Erica joins the show to chat about the power of video for a business, and the role it can play in getting people to adopt a product or new way of working. She shares tips on how to use video to establish the voice of your business and tells some fun stories along the way, from the origin of her unique company name to her uplifting experience working with Prince.

In this episode, you will learn:

• How video can act as a megaphone versus other forms of marketing
• How to create content your audience wants and the value of repurposing it across multiple mediums
• Why the myriad of video tools creates a barrier of entry for most people
• How to be intentional with video calls to alleviate Zoom-fatigue
• Why and how to integrate all five of a user’s senses when selling them a product or service

This episode is brought to you by The Jed Mahonis Group, where we make sense of mobile app development with our non-technical approach to building custom mobile software solutions. Learn more at https://jmg.mn.

Recorded January 21, 2021 | Edited by Jordan Daoust | Produced by Jenny Karkowski

Show Notes:

Puke Rainbows

erica@pukerainbows.com

Erica's FREE list of 50 Video Ideas

Episode 60: Seizing Opportunity in Podcasting

Episode Transcript:

Tim Bornholdt 0:00
Welcome to Constant Variables, a podcast where we take a non technical look at all things technical. I'm Tim Bornholdt. Let's get nerdy.

Before we jump into this week's episode, I have a quick favor to ask. We are conducting a survey of our listeners to hear your thoughts on the show, also to help us plan content and pick guests that matter to you. We also our bored of our podcasts lists. So we want to hear your favorite podcasts that you listen to so we can make our lists better. So if you have a minute, please head to constantvariables.co/survey. You can even fill it out while you're listening to this episode. That's constantvariables.co/survey.

Recently, we did an episode on the power of audio for business and we'll link to that in the show notes obviously, but we thought it would also be good to discuss the power of video for business because often it's the last thing that a company adopts as part of its marketing strategy.

Today on the show, we are chatting with Erica Hanna, owner of Puke Rainbows Creative, content strategy and video production so fun, you'll puke rainbows. Erica joins the show to chat about the role video can play in getting people to adopt a product or a new way of working, how to make your zoom meetings not so awful, how you can establish the voice of your business, the reason why there's a barrier to entry for video, and we hear how Erica was driven to entrepreneurship by none other than the legendary Prince. We are a Minnesota based podcast after all, so it was really only a matter of time before some Prince stories came out on here. So without further ado, here is my interview with Erica Hanna. Erica, welcome to the show.

Erica Hanna 1:58
Hi, thanks for having me. It's so great to be here.

Tim Bornholdt 2:01
It's an honor to have you here. We used to work together, well, we worked adjacent to each other when we were at WCCO, but I've followed you ever since then, and so it really is an honor to have you on here to talk about video.

Erica Hanna 2:14
Well, it's always just really nice to reconnect with people. And yeah, I'm just happy to be here.

Tim Bornholdt 2:21
Nice. Yeah, we've already burned like, you know, 20 minutes of time just reminiscing and discussing production tips, but I figured it's good to kind of start the show out and get get things actually on tape. So why don't we kick things off with a little bit of introduction about yourself and talk about Puke Rainbows.

Erica Hanna 2:39
Sure, absolutely. Yeah, so I've been running my own business full time now, this is lucky year number seven for me. So that's great. I mean, it was part time before that. But you know, we just call it full time. Yay. But yeah, Puke Rainbows is my company. I do video production and video coaching and public speaking.

Tim Bornholdt 3:06
Nice. And you've got a long storied career, right? I mean, you've won Emmys. You've done it all really in this space? Right?

Erica Hanna 3:15
Yeah, I've got six Emmys under my belt, which has been really fun. One of those was with Ellen DeGeneres. So that's pretty cool. I guess I feel really lucky that I was put kind of in the right place, right time for a lot of things. And, you know, the person that actually inspired me to make the leap to full time freelance full time on my own was the one and only Prince.

Tim Bornholdt 3:42
Nice. Well, now you got to elaborate on that.

Erica Hanna 3:46
It's kind of a story. It's kind of a story.

Tim Bornholdt 3:51
It's a podcast, we got time.

Erica Hanna 3:54
Yes, I was actually working with a mutual friend of yours and mine, Errol. And we went down to Paisley Park, and I'll do the condensed version of the story. How about that?

Tim Bornholdt 4:06
Stories tend to run long. As a Minnesotan, you know, you we all have one.

Erica Hanna 4:11
So, you know, you know, of course I know.

Tim Bornholdt 4:13
Oh, yeah. You betcha there.

Erica Hanna 4:17
So we ended up down at Paisley Park. I won't do the lead up to it. But let's just say I was having the worst case of imposter syndrome ever. I actually didn't want to go and tried to talk them out of having me go because I'm like, I don't think that I'm worthy of being down here. I think that you want somebody else to do this. This is really scary. You need a different director. And so they convinced me to go down there by saying, Well, he probably won't even show up because it's just a dry run through and it'll probably just be his band. Right? And he never shows up. They're like, He never shows up for stuff like this anyway. He always flakes out, like he won't even show up and I'm like, Okay, well then fine. I'll go just to like see his house. Right? Why not?

Unknown Speaker 5:09
You know, for anyone who's been to Paisley Park, his house, it's not a house. It's like a compound. Have you been in there? Tim?

Tim Bornholdt 5:16
I haven't, no.

Erica Hanna 5:17
It's crazy. So we were shooting inside the soundstage, which basically is the size of like a high school gymnasium. And, you know, you can fit about 1000 people in there standing up, and there's a big stage in the middle of it. And so we were doing some blocking with a band. And I turned around, and I looked at first camera, and was trying to direct them but I was flustered, right, like, I don't know, maybe it was just the grandeur of being inside Paisley Park. And I was just kind of preoccupied, right? And so finally I said, Well, here, give me the camera. And let me walk you through it. I'll just show you what I want you to do.

And so it was just us and the band at this point, right? And it's probably, Jesus, probably nine o'clock at night. And so I take the camera, and I run it up the front of the guitar, you know, his lead guitarist, and take a video of it. And then I stand up. And I look at my camera guy. And he says, under his breath, Look behind you. And I was like, Is he behind me? And he's like, He's behind you. And then I hear, I can't do a Prince impersonation to save my life. So like, keep that in mind, please. But suddenly, I hear Miss, can I see what you've done there? And I turn around and Prince is standing there with like these satin pajama pants on and like platform flip flops, and like a smoking jacket, like a Hugh Hefner style. And so I walk over to him with a camera, and I'm terrified, right? Because I'd heard all these horror stories from friends of mine in production who'd worked for Prince that he just kind of sometimes would be like, You're not worthy to be here, and I'm kicking you out, you know. I need it to be better than this, you know. And all I kept thinking was, I am not worthy to be here. And this is the end of my career, you know, like, this is gonna totally do me in.

And so I start walking towards him, right? Shaking, holding this camera. And I can suddenly feel like, I feel like I'm going to throw up. I feel like I'm gonna throw up and all I can think of is like, Great. Now, not only is he gonna hate my work, but I'm gonna puke all over the most, like, recognized pop star of our time. And that's gonna be my life, you know? And so I get to him. I hand him the camera; he turns it around. And he starts shaking his head back and forth, kind of in the "no" fashion. You know, like, if you're like nodding, no, you know, and I'm like, Great. Oh, great. Like this is it, my fears confirmed, right? And he looks at our friend Pete, who's producer. And he says, I thought you told me that she did video. And I was like, Wow, that's bad. That's not good, right? And I thought, Man, did I just take a picture? or What did I do? Like, this is my camera. Did I mess it up? And he looks at me. And he says, Because this isn't video. This is art. You created art.

Tim Bornholdt 8:46
Wow.

Erica Hanna 8:46
And I want you to keep that in mind that you create art. And this is beautiful. And then he put his hands on my shoulders. And he's like, You and me. Are you ready? We're gonna create something the world's never seen before. And I was like, Ahhhhh. I wanted to puke for a completely different reason, then, you know, but like, I mean, I'm just glad that I didn't. And we had a fantastic night. And yeah, I ended up shooting one of the pajama parties that he had out there, which ended up you know, pajama party is relative. It was more like a, you know, two hour concert at 6am. So, but yeah, it was really great to have that experience. And, I mean, it's sad to say that it took like the most wonderful, iconic musician to help me get over my imposter syndrome. Like, please don't wait for that, you know, but it definitely helped. It kind of changed how I look at business and everything because I had never really thought of video as art. My grandfather is an artist, he's a painter, and I always thought that I didn't have an artistic bone in my body. I thought that video is just kind of it's a set of rules, and you follow them, you know, rule of thirds, here's this, you know. So, yeah, I think we all can learn from that, that we all create art in some way.

Tim Bornholdt 10:27
Yeah, it's so beautifully said, because there's so many things about that, like, with the imposter syndrome with viewing what you do as art, instead of just the physical representation of taking video, like, that's, obviously the way you communicate is through that. And that's how you express yourself is through video. And I think there's a lot of parallels to software development, because it's like, you know, you sit here and bang out code all day. It's just like me telling a computer what to do. But it's more like, at the end of the day, when you see somebody that's out on the street actually using software that you built and getting value out of it and getting enjoyment or pleasure out of it, it's like, that's really what matters with what we do, you know, whether it's software or making video.

Unknown Speaker 11:14
It is, and that's art too, you know, to be able to take such complicated things, and turn them into whatever it is, you know, an app, an interface, something that helps with a pain point, like that is amazing, you know. Not very many people can do that.

Tim Bornholdt 11:33
I would agree. So is the Puke part of Puke Rainbows at all related to the Prince story? Or it's totally something different?

Unknown Speaker 11:42
So it actually is something different. It came about prior to the Prince story, my name, my business name, Puke Rainbows, but hey it kind of encapsulated it that day, you know, amplifed it. So, no, actually, it's not even a half as good of a story. But it came about on Twitter because in the early days of Twitter, I was one of the first people on Twitter and except I was one of those people that, how do I say this? I was the annoying person that just posted positive quotes. Like, we all know that person, right? Like, come on, get off it, stop it. And I had this young man that followed me from New York, his name is Juan and we still keep in touch. And he came from, you know, like a challenging background. And at the time, he was in high school. And he said, Hey, I like the quotes you post but sometimes they go over my head. What do they mean? And I said, basically, dude, they all mean the same thing. It's like when life gives you rain, like puke a freaking rainbow, you know. And so he would make like these choices in life, and then he used #PukeRainbows, so that I would see it. And if he's like, Hey, I decided to go to class today, puke rainbows. Or like, Hey, I graduated from high school. Which was amazing, you know. And now he has his art degree, which is also amazing, you know? And so puke rainbows. And then when I would go to social media breakfast and events, people would say, Oh, hey, uh. And they'd forget my name. And that's fine, you know? And they'd say, You're that puke rainbows girl? And I'm like, Yeah, yeah, Puke Rainbows. So then when it came time to name the business, my accountant was like, How about Erica Hanna video? And I was like, How about Puke Rainbows? And she's like, Well, no one will ever do business with you if you have the word puke in your name. And I was like, Oh, good. Like, I don't want to, if that's the barrier to working with somebody who's won like six Emmys, like the word puke, then they're just no fun. And I don't want to work with them anyway.

Tim Bornholdt 13:56
Yeah, no joke.

Unknown Speaker 14:01
Oddly enough, it's weeded out, I think. Because my friends that have production companies as well, I feel like they're always complaining about clients. And I'm like, I love all my clients. They're super weird and cool. So I don't know, I guess it worked out.

Tim Bornholdt 14:22
Well, yeah, I mean, as long as it's puking rainbows, because like, if it was just puke productions, you know, maybe that would be not an ideal. You know, you get a different type of client at least.

Erica Hanna 14:33
Very different. Very, very different.

Tim Bornholdt 14:37
I feel the same because with The Jed Mahonis Group, like our story was taking the two weirdest parts of our name from TV production class in high school, like we had fake news anchor names. And we just took the two weirdest parts of the names and slapped them together. So people are always asking like, Who's The Jed Mahonis Group? And it's like, well, I'm the Jed, and, you know, Rob's the Mahonis. And that's it. So yeah, cause I was doing the same thing, when we were naming our business, it's like you can come up with like, you know, geek whatever or computer helpers incorporated and it's like, I don't know. Life's too short. Have a fun business name. Tell me this. Is nothing more satisfying than like getting an official document from like a bank or like the government where it like has to say Puke Rainbows on it? And you know like some bureaucrat somewhere had to write Puke Rainbows and just kind of like, ugh.

Unknown Speaker 15:34
Oh, great, it's so great. When I got my PO box at the post office, actually, I walked out to go open it up for the first time, you know, with your key. You're like, Oh, this is my own post office box for my business. And I opened it up and I just so happened, you know how you can kind of like see into the back, like through your post office box, right? Like, where you can see them sorting mail? I opened it up. The person who had just rung me up was actually talking to another like postmaster or whatever. And they're like, Yeah, it was puke. Puke. Like p-u-k-e. What the heck? And then I just kind of like yelled through the little whole, It's video production. It's harmless. It's super fun, you know. And they're like, Oh.

Tim Bornholdt 15:38
I suppose a postal worker seeing puke in the name, I'm sure that they're like, are they like a testing? Like, are people gonna throw up in bags? And that's what I'm gonna have to shove in this PO box for the next, you know, like, several years? Oh, my God. Well, I feel like we could go on this rant forever. But I feel like our listeners are probably going to want to hear something about actual tips. This is my problem. Like, I tell people I host a show about app development. And then it just leads you down, God knows how many different paths.

So we're obviously talking about video, and we talked about audio on a previous episode, and how you can use audio to help promote your business and your apps and whatnot. And so I'd love to hear what you think the role video would play in, you know, helping users adopt products or maybe finding a new way of working? How do you see the role of video shaping out in those worlds?

Erica Hanna 17:31
Yeah, I think that video, you know, it's basically like a megaphone for whatever the solution is that your app provides. Right? It can be a megaphone for that. You can show how it works, right, with like a demo video. You can become a thought leader with video in your space and talk about just the solution in general, you know, or the hurdle that your app is trying to help with, you know. You can also use personalized video to talk to your users and to ask them questions. I think it's really, really great. And also the nice thing about video, compared to, let's say, let's just compare it to like writing a blog post right? Video actually helps you retain 95% of the message, which is crazy, compared to 10% of the message if you're just reading it, because you're engaging more than one sense, right? I think it's just really amazing. And I mean, there's all sorts of stats out there, of course, you know, like the one that we've all heard. 84% of people have been convinced to buy a product because of a video. It really, you know, I think it's because it breaks it down for them, and it makes it easy for them to see and they can see someone touching and using and understanding the product, so it really just is a megaphone to show how your product can make their life better.

Tim Bornholdt 19:10
I think that makes a ton of sense. Because whenever I'm looking and shopping around and comparing, you know, whatever, like sometimes you do like competitive analysis and look at your own competitors. And it's like you load websites up and you have you know, 10 browser tabs that you're just kind of tabbing across and the ones that have like a video at the top or near the top that just to have like a quick recap. I'm not talking about the ones that put the video behind a wall of text. I hate that. I hate that so much. But when it's like a quick 30-60 video that just explains here's who we are and here's what we do, and even if it's like the lame boring shots of like walking down a hallway, somebody like pointing at a phone. Like even if it's something as lame as that it's like, well, at least that's the message that they're trying to convey. Like they're trying to convey a certain sense of professional. And I'm sure you know if we hired you to do our videos, it would be like a lot more like, you know us, like hang gliding or doing something like yeah, way cooler than what we actually do all day.

Erica Hanna 20:10
I mean, if you guys want to look boring, like that's all about your goals, right? Like I can help you do that, whatever you need.

Tim Bornholdt 20:16
If we were gonna make a video and look boring, it would need to be like the most over the top boring video that you'd ever see. God, yeah, we'd go off on.

Erica Hanna 20:26
That'd actually be kind of fun.

Tim Bornholdt 20:28
Right? It would be like the challenge of how can we make ourselves look as boring as possible, but like, in a way that it's like tongue in cheek that you get that they're trying to be boring. You don't want it to be like too realistic, like, it's got to be a schtick.

Erica Hanna 20:42
Oh, and you know what, that kind of reminds me, like a sidebar really quick. Wings was a client of mine. And we actually did like a spoof video for them one fall. We did a video for pumpkin spice checking.

Tim Bornholdt 20:58
Nice.

Erica Hanna 20:59
And of course, it was a fake thing. But we did it like just to show that they have personality and that they don't take themselves too seriously. But then we actually set up a landing page. And they had people who like would sign up, legit, for like, checking accounts. Of course, it's not like, pumpkin spice or whatever. But like, people were signing up for checking accounts. It's like, sure. That's awesome. You know,

Tim Bornholdt 21:20
I think I saw that. You must have shared it. Because I know I've seen that. And it's like just those little, like this kind of ties into what role can video can play, it's like, it's a small thing that, you know. Like, really how do you differentiate checking accounts between banks, right? It's like an interest rate and ease of access. Like that's really the only difference. So when you're looking for it, you want that human touch in that way that we can all be like, Okay, banking is serious, but come on, like, how serious do we have to be all the time? You can have a little bit of fun and show a little bit of personality. And I think, maybe you would agree with this, I think video is one of the ways that you can really be the most expressive because you have the visual and the audio components. It's like unless you were doing like a theater play where you can like spray smells in the air, something to capture more senses. But it's like video is going to trump a written blog post, or I mean, even these podcasts, depending on what kind of message you're trying to get across.

Erica Hanna 22:21
Absolutely. And that's what I love about video. When it comes to, you and I had talked about prior to pressing record, the role video is playing, you know, establishing your brand's voice just in general, like the brand voice. And the thing that I always come back to. I always use this example of how many times have you been scrolling through your email, and you're in a terrible mood. And no matter what that email is, you're gonna read it in a voice in your head where you're either angry, or sad, or just whatever, crappy, right? So it could be like, Hey, J Crew just sent me a coupon for 75% off and I'll be like, J Crew, get out of my inbox. Stop messing with me. Stop bothering me. Oh, my gosh, I hate you. You know?

Tim Bornholdt 23:12
You could only give me 75%? It couldn't be 80? What's wrong with you, J Crew?

Erica Hanna 23:17
I mean, that's about the markup. So hey. But like, then you look at, love them or hate them, like for a while, the BuzzFeed videos were just everywhere, right? And now it's more like, you know, short videos on TikTok. But same thing, like I can have a friend, I can be in the worst mood, and then a friend sends me some TikTok video, you know, and I am just on the floor laughing and my whole day is different suddenly. And it just turns it around. You know, it's because that person who made the video is controlling the tone of voice, right? The tone that you're hearing, the tone that you're seeing, the tone that you're feeling, it's a complete tone, you know, just experience. Whereas like, I mean, we could use Chino Latino, as an example. A few years ago, when they did those terribly awful billboards that were, I believe they were either racist or sexist, or probably both, I don't know. And they're like, Oh, well, it was supposed to be sarcastic. And you're like, Well, you can't really control that.

Tim Bornholdt 24:31
You can't put like a big winky face on the side of the billboard to be like, Hey, you get it? You can't convey that.

Erica Hanna 24:37
As much as you wish that we could have like the sarcasm font really.

Tim Bornholdt 24:42
Yeah, that happened to me. Just the other day I had a potential lead that I was communicating with over text and we were talking about price and I just sent a message like, Okay, well, I mean, do you know what your budget is? Like it was just a genuine thing. I want to be able to help fit within your budget. He wrote back and was like, You don't have to get all defensive with me. And I was like, Whoa, like, I totally didn't mean that, like, I'm super sorry. I'm just trying to throw them some things out your way. And then he was like, Oh, yeah, that's cool. It ended up being fine.

Erica Hanna 25:13
So he thought you were like, Do you know what your budget is?! Like he thought you were like yelling at him.

Tim Bornholdt 25:20
Especially for something like money, you know, conveying that with a text versus conveying it with having that visual component, it's just like talking about it on the phone versus having a zoom chat. Like, you know, you see so much more when you ask that question. You can read their faces and see the expressions and all those unwritten cues that we give off when we're communicating as humans, like you don't get that nuance in text, which is why we have emojis everywhere.

Erica Hanna 25:47
That is so true. Yes. Oh, my gosh.

Tim Bornholdt 25:51
You brought up TikTok and I'm throwing off our script because I wanted to talk about that for a second because I am like a dumb millennial that is refusing to join TikTok and I see posts videos posted elsewhere. I just hate social networks so much. When you build them for a living, it's like when you work in a pizza place, and you're just like, I don't want to eat pizza. Like, I make pizza all day. I know what goes into it. It's like the same with apps. Like say, I don't want to do it. But anyway so this is like, just a blanket question because you being the expert. What role would TikTok have in like, if you're adapting a video type of mindset for promoting your product or promoting your image? Like you really have to have a voice on TikTok, right? Like that would be, I would imagine you'd have to like really focus on what kind of message you're putting out. And we were talking about establishing your brand's voice, like TikTok would have to be the place where that's where it is, right? Like, it's all about having the right voice.

Erica Hanna 26:57
Oh, absolutely. But I've seen some really great product ads on TikTok lately. They're allowing ads now, and it links right to the product, just like on Instagram, you know, where you shop within? And, I mean, I can't even tell you how many things that me and my partner have bought, because of TikTok. It's so sad. It is so sad. But it's great. You know, like, because it's stuff that's made our life better, you know. Since Tick Tock seems to be such a transparent network right now, you're seeing a lot of product reviews coming through. Right? So, half the time, I've actually had my partner send me videos before, you know, like, via a direct message on tik tok. And he'll be like, This thing looks really cool. And I'll be like, This is an ad, you know that this is an ad. Right. You know? And he's like, Oh. I mean, because you really can't tell the difference. It just looks like it's some Joe Schmoe influencer reviewing a product, you know, and saying like, Alright, hey, is your water pressure terrible? And do you worry about how if it's making your skin dry? That's been one of the big ads right now is for the showerhead that has, I don't know, some kind of rocks or something in it like charcoal or something that purifies everything in your water. And like, everyone's talking about it, right? And it's everywhere. And they're like, It doesn't matter what the water pressure is in your actual pipes. This showerhead is going to make your water pressure incredible. And so a bunch of people, you know, I mean, what a perfect place to advertise it because it's kind of a younger demographic, lots of people renting, you know, so they don't want to tear apart their, they can't tear apart their bathrooms. And, yeah, it's just going gangbusters. There's also a lot of actual accounts that do, I follow three different accounts that have discount codes for Amazon. Where, I mean, the other day they reviewed one of those hanging chairs you would use on your balcony, you know. It's like a rope macrame type of chair. And they're like, Hey, it's originally $140. But with our code, it's $35. You know, and you're like, Cool. Buy!

So, I mean, that's been really cool. But then there's also like you said, that you need to build certain products and people you know, they need to build to make themselves kind of like a thought leader as well, you know, but I've seen that too. Like, there's this, this is so dumb. Like there's this cat that we follow. His name is Shrimp, you know, and he's hilarious. It's kind of like the next Grumpy Cat. Right? And what did my partner get me for Christmas? A sweatshirt, like from Shrimp's account? I mean, I know, I sound like a sucker right now. But I think part of it is just because the TikTok platform itself isn't really, you're not seeing a lot of like super sophisticated ad type ads, you know. It doesn't feel like an ad, because it's not shot on, you know, a red camera, and it's not super heavily produced, and it just feels like some dude reviewing a product. And that's what people trust right now.

Tim Bornholdt 30:51
So within that, like, I will leave this topic at some point, but I'm just fascinated, and I love getting your insight on these things. So if I was an app, let's take that for example. Like if I have an app, and I'm trying to promote it, and I come to you and say, Erica, like I'd really love help, you know, coming up with some videos that I can, you know, put on TIkTok or that I can just want to incorporate video into my campaign. I think TikTok could be a part of that. How do you advise helping people to find their voice and especially for a brand new product, you know, or like a brand new whatever? How do you help people, what questions, and how do you get people in that mindset of discovering what their voice actually is?

Erica Hanna 31:37
Yeah, absolutely. So let's start with like, an example. Right? So let's say that you have an app that is meant to kind of help people in the mental health space, right? It's relevant in these times, right?

Tim Bornholdt 31:56
Maybe a little bit.

Erica Hanna 31:57
So let's say that's kind of what you're looking at. What I would first say is, Okay, then let's gain trust. Let's make your company a leader in this space. And maybe, you know, I'm guessing that you have a psychologist or two on staff, if this is like your app idea, right? And so, TikTok even is just filled with service providers that are giving free advice. And it's amazing. I saw a video the other day that was really simple. And it was a woman that said, Hey, if you feel like you're going to have a panic attack, this is what you're going to do. And it was a 15 second video. I mean, how helpful is that? She says, You're going to either grab a handful of ice or if you don't have ice handy, you're going to put one hand underneath your opposite armpit and put the other hand on your opposite shoulder, and you're gonna close your eyes and take three really deep breaths. And she explained what it was about that position that calms the nervous system. But so yeah, so there it is. It's like you become a thought leader in that space, right? And then you can use your app to kind of weave that into that. I see that happening a lot, weaving it into the conversation. It's like, Hey, I'm gonna give you this great advice. And oh, if you want more advice, it happens to be on the app, but I'm gonna still keep giving you the advice anyway, because I want you to know that I'm just trying to help you. Right?

Tim Bornholdt 33:40
So really, a lot of like your voice, it's got to be authentic of whatever service and whatever thing you're trying to do. I mean, if you're making something just to make money, there's a lot of shady ways to go about, like, promoting it, and you know, doing things like that. But if you genuinely are, I guess what you could call like an ethical entrepreneur of some sort, and you actually are trying to put something out into the world, a product or a service that makes people's lives better, then presumably, you know what those pain points are that people have, and you can kind of help just explain here's what you can do to make it feel better. And, you know, part of that solution is this thing that I've come up with, but here's, like, you know, a couple other things you can do. And eventually you might come and use my thing or not, but either way, I just want to help. Does that seem like what you're kind of getting at with how you help kind of establish what you want to do for your voice?

Erica Hanna 34:38
Absolutely. And, you know, the interesting thing about that is that a lot of people will say, Well, I don't really know. Like, I don't have a ton of content ideas, though. You know, like, they'll say that, and I'll say, Okay, cool. Then ask your audience. It's really that simple. Like, just say, you know, I've done that a million times on LinkedIn personally. For video stuff, I'll say, Hey, what are you guys having trouble with right now when it comes to video? And half the time when I'm asking that it's because I'm like, Man, I really need to get some content out there. I don't know, like, I feel like I've written a million blog posts in my life. But have I covered these things recently, right? And, just the other day, you know, I got a message from someone, a direct message on LinkedIn, and she's like, Hey, can you recommend tripods for iPad? Please, like, that would be so great. And then anything that I need to keep in mind for live streaming my child's sporting event, because we're taking turns as parents doing this, and I don't want to mess up and have all the parents mad at me. Like, oh, man, how come I didn't think about that. And I told her, I said, you have totally inspired a blog slash video, you know, video blog idea, because I don't have kids. So I wasn't thinking about that in terms of the pandemic right now. So thank you for the post idea.

Tim Bornholdt 36:14
How do you think about, because you mentioned, like, you have a wide variety of posts and content that you've created over the years? I personally feel like when it comes to app development, there's like, 10 things people care about. And I feel like I just say the same 10 things, you know, 1000 different ways. Do you feel the same way? And how do you figure out what content, especially like, putting it out as a video? How do you think of what content you're going to put out there to help not feel like you've like, Don't you feel like you've said it, and that they should have seen it? But you know, they haven't seen it. You know what I mean?

Erica Hanna 36:50
I do. I do feel that way. Absolutely. But then I have to step back and remind myself that I may feel that way about this particular subject, because I'm a subject matter expert in it, right? So I live it and I breathe it. And I see it all the time. Whereas, here, we'll use this as an example. Right? I was talking to my financial advisor the other day, and he has probably explained to me a million times the difference between all these different terms, right? I don't even know what the terms are anymore. Now that I'm sitting here again, of course, I can't come up with them. But like, you know, the difference between an annuity and a whatever the heck and a thing and a thing and a thing. And every single time he sits down with me, I'm always like, Oh, yeah, I get it, I get it. Yeah, yeah. And then I sign off on him investing however he's gonna do it. And then I forget. I feel like I forget, you know what I mean? Because it's like, I don't live in that. I don't live in it. And I don't remember it, because I'm not eating and breathing it all the time. So I think we also need to remember that sometimes it just takes a person hearing it a certain way for it to finally click, you know, the very last time for it to click. And we say things different ways without even realizing that we do, right, use different metaphors, or we use different stories in explaining that concept or technique. And when it finally clicks for somebody, that light bulb moment is so, I don't know, it's just really rewarding. So it's like keep trying, keep putting out your content.

Tim Bornholdt 38:34
No, that makes a whole lot of sense. And yeah, I think you're right that when we're living in our respected areas, respective areas of knowledge, you start to listen to other subject matter experts in the way they explain things. So it's like if you explain something to somebody four years ago, and you haven't slightly changed the way that you approached it or looked at it, then you're probably out of style. Or out of date. So it makes sense that you might have to repeat it yourself 1000 times or in different ways using different mediums just to be able to help people understand what it is you do and how what you do can help another person.

Well, changing subjects again a little bit. We were talking again about video and we all have smartphones, like we have 4k, video recording devices, literally sitting in our pockets right now. And it is not hard to make video these days, but video production is so hard. The other day, I was like I'm gonna jump into Final Cut and I opened it up and I had to download Final Cut 10 which was like a whole new world for me and I'm sitting here with like magnetic timelines, like ripping my hair out thinking, How can anybody understand like these tools? There's so many complex ways to to do a very well produced video. How do you help people figure out how to actually jump into video? Like, why is there such a big barrier there?

Erica Hanna 40:11
Absolutely. So I think just like you said, there's a barrier, because, I mean, it can be complicated. Tt really can be, even for those of us that have worked in video for a long time. I know that when I teach my smartphone video workshops, every time I teach it, I update the apps, right? And every time that means I need to use or at least look through a different app, like for editing, just to make sure that a better one didn't come out, right. And it's always like, Oh, I feel so stupid right now, like, I'm a video person. This should be really easy. But you know, the benefit is that I can sort through those things for people, right, because they don't have the time to do that. They just don't. And so what I like to do is when I'm teaching my smartphone video workshops, I like to take as much of the tech talk out as possible, because I do think as production heads, you know, production people, we get way too into that. It's just what we do, right? We're like, Oh, well, how many frames per second are you shooting? And you say that kind of stuff to just normal people, and it's the same thing as talking about annuities and whatever to people who don't care about finances, right, or don't work in that world. So it's just a lot easier for me to say, like, you know, when I'm explaining how lenses work, I'm like, Oh, yeah, so the person's face will be in focus, and the rest will be blurry. Instead of saying, like, with depth of field, blah, blah, blah, blah, blah, and F stop of the thing, you know, like, people do not need to know that, right? They just don't. So, I mean, that's what I did at WCCO for 10 years. My job was to write the show open, you know, so it's like, take the 30 minute show and boil it down to 30 seconds. And I feel like that's what I do in my workshops. And that I wish everyone did when they were teaching something. It's like, No, no, no, no, no, just give me the 30-second version, all I really actually need to know to create something, because I don't want to feel stupider when I'm trying to create it.

And then what we'll do is, I'll actually give them assignments and have them show their work to other people in the class, and we'll build them up, because it's so important. I can't stress that enough, especially after having that, I mean, how lucky to have that experience with Prince, right? But to be able to give feedback to anybody and just build them up is such a big deal. And so then, after they take the class, they're also invited to be part of this private Facebook group I have, which is nice, because then they're interacting with people who are also just beginning and then they don't feel stupid, you know, asking questions, because other people are asking questions. And they can post the most simple video ever, and everyone will be like, That's the coolest thing. You know, it's all about like solidarity and creating that community.

But, you know, when it comes to, like, why is there a barrier to entry? I think just coming back to like you said, I think it's because there's so many tools, and people get caught up in that. It's like, you know what, forget about the tools, like just shoot yourself. Like I said, like the easiest thing on TikTok to sell a product right now, is just a product review. You don't need any tools for that, like, you need your smartphone. That's it, and like talk about the product. That's it. You know, same thing for live video. Go live, do it on Facebook or wherever, like, just be transparent and answer questions about your product. It's just like having a conversation. Like if you can have a conversation with a human being, you are qualified to do a live video. There's no secret to it. Really, you know.

Tim Bornholdt 44:29
There's so many parallels to this topic and software development, like so many people talk about learning coding, and my go-to metaphor is people think that what we do is take what they want as a product and then go into a cave and I put on a giant pointy cone hat, and I stroke my long white beard. And I wave a wand a few times and abracadabra outcomes an app and then there you go. And it just looks like wizardry and witchcraft, which, on one hand, we are tricking rocks into thinking, that's all computers are. So yes, it is like kind of magic. But on the other hand, it's like, I learned to do it when I was like eight, you know, like, it's not like a hard skill. Uou just have to be curious. And I think that's probably like the biggest trait I would say, if you're wanting to understand video, because I felt the same way. The reason that I really wanted to get into video production and why I like left computer engineering and went into journalism was because I was more curious about how do news broadcasts get put together. How does a green screen work? You just kind of you peel back the layers. And yes, you get that intimidation factor and imposter syndrome all the time. Because you feel like the more you learn, the more you realize you don't know everything. You have to like, just keep trying and keep falling on your face and failing. But there's so many parallels to what you had said with trying to just get started, just do it. And like, I want to get all Shia LaBeouf on anybody but like, just do it. Like just pick up your phone and record and it's gonna suck. Like, just get over it, like, yeah, it's not gonna be great the first time but then you'll watch it, and you'll cringe. But you'll be like, Oh, maybe I could try this a little bit different. And then you'll be a little bit better, and then you'll be a little bit better. And yeah, like the the other point I wanted to throw out was the tooling too. Oh my god, like, like project managers, I feel like are the absolute worst with this, because it's like, Oh, did you know there's a new project management tool out there? We could use Trello, we can use Asana, we can JIRA. And it's just like, Oh, my God, just do your job, like, just do the job. Just organize it, like you don't have to worry about 1000 different tools that are out there, just pick one and just do it. And then with video production, I got started using Pinnacle. Like, it's not a great software package. You make really ugly looking videos, like looking back, but like, you look back on them. And I laugh and it's so much fun. Like you just see yourself on video. It's like the same way, just go out and make a video, come on.

Erica Hanna 47:10
Well, and the thing too, that I always say is that, you know, you dive into these softwares. I primarily use Premiere Pro and After Effects. But I can tell you that the amount of effects that I actually use in those, I think it's like a handful. I can count on like two hands. Because otherwise it just looks ridiculous. Like there is no reason why you need page wipe star wipe all the different wipes.

Tim Bornholdt 47:42
Nope. Nope. Take it back. You need star wipe. I will die on that hill, star wipe everything.

Erica Hanna 47:49
Right. I think it's like, once you point that out to somebody and you say, Think about the most amazing commercials that you've seen from the Super Bowl. Like, what are like the effects that they're using, really? Usually it's just like straight shooting, you know, like, unless it's some crazy CGI thing. Usually it's just creativity, it's creativity with the script, or how something is portrayed. Like, it's not the back end stuff that's helping you actually edit the video, you know, and of course, you and I know being working in video, yeah, of course, we know that that went through a production house and they edited the color. They did the color grading and the audio and like, it's all great, but if you're just looking at the content itself, like, stop trying to make it more complicated than it is, you know.

Tim Bornholdt 48:51
I don't really remember a whole lot of the Superbowl commercials from last year. But there was the one that just came out recently with Bruce Willis for the Diehard batteries that they're selling for some car place. And I remember watching through that commercial and he's doing all those like ridiculous stunts, you know, like crashing through walls and all that stuff. And it's like, you know, you can nitpick how they did it with, like, the production and what was CG, what was not, but at the end of the day, it all started back in a pitch room where somebody was like, Hey, wouldn't it be funny if Bruce Willis like, did this and this, and then you work upward from that, and like, you kind of find your limits, where you kind of have to start with the content first and think through the idea first, because at the end of the day, like we're telling stories with video. That's what our job is in this realm. And if you want to make your app tell a story of how you get people into the app, you got to make it a good story and make it compelling. It doesn't matter how much CG you throw into it, o all the other stuff. It could be just as compelling with like a little girl navigating through your app as opposed to, you know, a 30 person dance routine choreographed while they're back flipping off a skydive, you know, the skyscraper or whatever. Doesn't matter.

Erica Hanna 50:07
Yeah. Well, and I also say to people to you, like, a lot of people get so hung up on like, Oh, I don't know how to do graphics and whatever. I'm like, Okay, cool. Like, what swag do you already have? And they're like, What do you mean? Like, what company swag do you have? Do you have a business card? That can be your endplate? Just shoot it with your smartphone? Do you have letterhead? Do you have a poster in your office with your logo on it? Like, there you go. You don't have to do anything, you know.

Tim Bornholdt 50:35
Boyd Huppert style of shooting right there.

Erica Hanna 50:37
There you go. Right, as organic as it comes.

Tim Bornholdt 50:42
Man, no one's gonna get that reference. That's great. So, while we're talking about video, and moving to kind of a different form of video, you know, obviously, we're all sitting on Zoom all day, every day talking with people, interviewing all that kind of stuff. We're on it all the time. How do we make it not suck so bad?

Erica Hanna 51:07
There are so many ways actually to make it not suck so bad. And I wish that people were implementing some strategies for that. I think it's twofold, right? Like, I think one, we need to look at that we're not maximizing zoom, really, to connect. What we're doing, what a lot of people are doing, is doing what we would normally do in a meeting, or in a lecture hall, or wherever that is, right? If you're a teacher, you know, like a college professor, for example, and then they're just taking their whole class, and they're putting it on Zoom. And we have to be real with each other. And say, like, you know what, It's a different platform, we need to think about it. And of course, this is in no way shape or form trying to put teachers like on blast or anything, like they're doing a great job, like that is not I mean.

Tim Bornholdt 52:13
I'm with you, Erica. Down with teachers. They're the worst.

Erica Hanna 52:16
Right. But I mean, like in the future, because we know, like, since this, we were forced into it. We were forced into all this zoom conferencing, it's not going to go away now. You know, we know that now. And hopefully, as time progresses, people can implement some tactics to really tap into the power of it. So for example, I have been doing some work with AARP. And one of the things they've been doing is, they have these breakout rooms that they do, you know, and that's great. That's one way to use Zoom. Another way is just using that chat function as much as possible, you know, to get people. It kind of wakes people up a little bit when they're in a meeting, you know, just saying like, Hey, what does everyone think? Put in in chat, you know, and then we don't have to go through the whole like, Oh, hey, you're muted, you're muted, you're muted, you know, like, unmute yourself, like all that kind of stuff, you know. Also this concept of, I think, being a little bit more intentional with what we're going to use Zoom for. I think, initially, people at the beginning of the pandemic, they were just like, Oh, it was a meeting. So now, it'll be a Zoom call. When actually, you know, 90% of those could have been phone calls, easily. You know, it's not a big deal. But if you aren't gonna have a Zoom call, I say, be strategic about it, send out the itinerary for the call ahead of time. Post the questions in the email, and ask people to send them back. And then go through the questions. If you're the one organizing the meeting, put in the work, you know, and go through those questions from the people that are going to be attending the meeting, and pick out the ones that are relevant to the topic that day, then keep that meeting to 25 minutes or less. And, hey, I think we all love that, right? Like shorter meetings. Thank you very much. I love that.

Tim Bornholdt 54:25
That's the best feature that Zoom had is where they cut you off after 45 minutes if you're not paying for it. Why is that not like a bad thing? I want that by default, where it just stops after 20 minutes. And you're like, Well, if we didn't get it done, we didn't get it done.

Erica Hanna 54:40
Absolutely. And also, I think that we should be using break time also within Zoom, right? Like I think it's totally fine. If you know that that meeting's going to go longer than 25 minutes, you know, every 25 minutes, say, Hey, let's give your eyesa break, such and such is going to talk about this topic, or whatever it is, you know, for the next five minutes, so go ahead and shut off your own cameras while you're listening to them. And just make sure that you're not multitasking, thank you, you know. But also keep in mind that even though you're on video, that 38% of how you are viewed and received and communication is your tone of voice. So you need to really keep that in mind, because I think people are just, they're speaking on Zoom as if they're in like a lecture hall, sometimes. I've worked one on one with a lot of professors that seem to be doing this, where they'll get on, and they'll be like, Hello, class, and blah, blah, blah, blah, blah, blah, blah, blah, blah, you know, and they're lecturing. But it's like, you're not in person like you, it's different, you know, you need to use dynamic volume. You need to pause, you need to remember to maybe take it down a notch, if you want to get people's attention, you know, like just really be a little bit more dynamic in your communication.

Tim Bornholdt 56:16
One thing I kept thinking about when you were talking about the adapting to what medium you're in is, like, it's been shown time and time and time again that the way college lectures work, where it's like an hour of somebody standing in front of a podium, and just talking to you is like one of the least effective ways of retaining information. And Zoom gives us this opportunity now, because you know, it's hard to break those entrenched habits. I mean, that science has been out for a long time, even before I was in college, and it still was the way college was done was just, you sit in a chair for an hour and a half and just get talked to and you look around the room, everyone's sleeping or dozing off. And it's like, well, no wonder it's like not engaging at all. And it's partly kind of unfair, again, we get thrown into this pandemic, and it's just like, Oh, all right, go. And of course, you're gonna like try to fall back on those old habits, because that's what humans do. But you know, I think you're right, we have this golden opportunity now, like, you can look at the pandemic for all its awfulness, which, you know, obviously should. But it's also like, they talk about it being the great reset, where we have this opportunity now to be creative and to find new ways to interact with each other. Because the ways that we had been doing it before, we just physically should not be doing them. Obviously, there are people that are still doing it, but we'll put that aside. But, you know, I think this really opens up a whole new opportunity for us to just collectively look at what is the purpose of a meeting. Why are we doing this? And can we move it to a phone call? Can we move it to, please just an email? There are times where you can switch between mediums, but yeah, I think just having the opportunity to evaluate how you do things is something that we don't really, as we get older, we do less and less and less. And I think this is a great opportunity to rekindle with our youthful tendencies of being like, Why are we doing this? I don't want to do this. This looks dumb. Let's do it a different way.

Erica Hanna 58:25
Absolutely. I think, oh, man, you put that so well, Tim, seriously. I also think that, you know, when I'm talking to these people that I'm coaching, like through these video coaching calls, I always say, All right. Tell me your favorite movie quote. And they can always think of a favorite movie quote. And then I say, All right, now tell me your favorite slide that a professor used in college. And they're always like, Err. And they're like, Oh, okay, okay. And I'm like, No, really, like, I'm not trying to be a jerk, but I don't think I've ever, like, remembered. I mean, I've seen some pretty funny speakers, you know, like, Yeah, I just never remember. Like, it's just, they're just not memorable. But, like, you can remember stories and so I say, like, you have to think about the fact that people remember movie quotes, because they can see it, they can basically smell it, you know, because they know whatever is happening in the movie. You know, like, if it's in like an industrial park, like, you just know what that smells like. So like, it puts you there, right? You know what things feel like, they feel grimy, they feel, you know, whatever. And that we need to start speaking with those kind of descriptors. Like I always talk about that when it comes to writing a script, that it's so much more effective. Instead of saying, like, the first day that I worked here, it was great. You know, instead of saying that, you say, I remember the first time I walked in the doors, and the sun was shining through the skylight, and it was super warm, and inviting, and I could smell coffee brewing. And I looked over and a dog started to run towards me. And it just felt like the most inviting workplace ever. That's completely different than saying, like, I remember the first day I worked here. It was great, you know. So like, we just need to think about how we integrate those five senses into when we're storytelling.

Tim Bornholdt 1:00:46
I know like when I was in journalism school, basically, that journalism is just storytelling, right. But yeah, I think it's one of those soft skills that if you can become good at telling a story and putting your audience or your user or whoever into a specific frame of mind, by the way that you nudge them with whatever verbs and adjectives you used to establish this environment, you put people in the palm of your hands. It goes to your your movie quote example. The reason that you remember these quotes is because they pushed you, you know, over the course of an hour and a half to two hours, they pushed you in these certain directions, and you were hook line and sinker in with it, whether you wanted to or not. You like couldn't help, but like, be engaged with this atmosphere. And I think, like storytelling is one of those skills, like, you can learn all the great camera tricks, and you can learn all the great like CG effects and all of that, you know. I think we could both like rattle off 1000 examples where it's like, yeah, that was technically really, really cool. But, man, what a boring movie, or it was so annoying. And so it's like, if you can master the art of telling a story, then the sky's the limit for whatever product or app or situation you're trying to sell somebody on.

Erica Hanna 1:02:09
Yeah, absolutely. I mean, I think even I was giving a presentation to the research team at Target. This was about two years ago, and we were talking about how to make slide decks more dynamic, right, and integrating video within them. And I just said, You know what, like, if you're giving your boss a presentation about how this particular sweater is going to make someone have more confidence, or whatever that is, you know, some statistic is not going to do that. You're going to need to take the research that you're getting in the field and actually record it. Like they need to hear somebody's voice when they try on something for the first time and actually feel like themselves, right? And then suddenly, it's personified, and it's an actual human being having an experience, speaking in awe about the softest sweater she's ever had in her life, and about, oh, this is gonna be perfect for my, you know, child's party. And it was just so interesting to have that moment of, Oh, yeah. Like we can tell stories with research. That's crazy. I mean, stories are everywhere. I think everybody has a story. And I mean, you know, that more than anyone, especially with your podcast, you know, just everybody has a great story to be told, and every founder, every app, you know, there is definitely always a story there.

Tim Bornholdt 1:03:57
Couldn't agree more. Yeah, I was thinking about with the slide deck stuff that you were talking about with our audience, a lot of people that are listening are entrepreneurs and trying to build, you know, apps where they have to go pitch a VC, venture capitalists, on whatever they're selling. And so it's always about, you know, let me see your deck. Let me see your slides. I've always hated looking at people's slides. And I'm really glad you just helped me articulate why is because so many people just don't use the medium to tell a story. It's like they just are, you know, go on to whatever website that says, Here's the five slides you need in your deck to convince any VC to give you money. And then you plop in whatever random statistics you throw in there. And it's like, just a bunch of blah, boring nonsense. It's like, if you're selling me an app that's going to, you know, like you were talking about with the sweater situation, it's like, find somebody that did feel better in the sweater and put them in front of a camera and ask them questions about the sweater and it's like, you might need to find, you know, not everybody's great on camera. So you have to like, yeah, you know, work around and find the right fit. But like, man, if you can get the right person with the right sweater, the right story, it's like, that's gonna do so much more for you than whatever slide deck you can come up with.

Erica Hanna 1:05:16
Absolutely. And that's the thing, too, is like, well, you again, you know, because you do podcasts, and you've done video, but interviewing in itself, and getting the story out of somebody is a very specialized technique. And, but it's, you know, a lot of it is natural, but some of it is teachable. And, like, I always use that as like an add on course, you know, if people want to take it from me of like, this is how you do an interview to get compelling story, you know, and the thing to remember about that is sometimes when you're doing those interviews, as the interviewee you're not gonna feel real comfortable sometimes. If you're not getting the answer that you really want to, you know, like, you're gonna have to think on your feet, and maybe ask the same question more than once. But the thing is, is like, we always forget that when you're the person being interviewed, like, you don't really notice that you're just like, Oh, I just hope that I don't mess up my answer. Like, so you just like answer it anyway. And you probably answered a completely different way.

Tim Bornholdt 1:06:26
That's so true. Because I feel like during the course of this podcast, specifically, we were actually talking between myself and my editor and producer, the three of us were chatting about how you can tell the difference between my interviews from the first to now and it is like you practice the muscle memory. If you want to get better at interviewing, you have to go and do it. It's just like anything else in life. But yeah, I feel like there's still 1000 things I can learn about interviewing, because it's a lot of the quick wittedness of thinking on your feet and being able to actually really hear what somebody's saying. And think of, you know, putting yourself in the audience's shoe that you want to get that story or that perspective, or something like that. It's a fascinating medium. And that's why it's so fun to just, like, be able to have these conversations with people like you because it draws those insights, you know, if anything, like, you know, maybe nobody ever listens to this episode, but I'm gonna pull stuff out of it. There you go.

Erica Hanna 1:07:31
It's so interesting too because I think one of the most interesting things about interviewing and storytelling that a lot of producers don't do is to remember that conversations have natural ebb and flow to them. And it shouldn't be like you're interrogating someone. Right? So, like, you keep asking me questions, and then I'll say something. And that sparks a question. And that kind of thing. But we need to remember to do that in our interviews as well. Because if someone feels like they're just on on on, suddenly, they might just get overwhelmed. You know, so I've definitely had times where in an interview I've said, Hey, do you have any questions for me? Or can I tell you a little bit or I'll just try to notice if somebody is having some fatigue, right? Like, they're kind of stumbling a lot, or I'm just not really locked in. And I'll say, Oh, hey, let's get you some water. Because I've been really interviewing you hard. Let's get you some water. And why don't I tell you, do you mind if I share one time when that same exact thing happened to me, and it was so crazy, you know, and you try to like, just establish these bonds with that person, so that they trust you more during the time when they're taking a little break, you know?

Tim Bornholdt 1:09:02
That's one of the hardest parts of interviewing too and trying to tell a story is the authenticity of it. And like when you're put in front of a camera, I mean, even I'm staring into a microphone right now. And it's like, you see the red light blinking with the record and you're like, Okay, I'm on. There's a part of you that knows that this will be heard, at least by my editor. Maybe the rest of the world. But you're in front of a camera, you're performing and I think it's hard to break out of that mindset but eventually when you get comfortable, with the absurdity almost of it, of the performance aspect, you can kind of like break down and as soon as you can get the other person to feel comfortable, then the story seems so much more natural. I know you are a pro at this. We've talked I think a total in our lives, maybe for like 15 minutes, you know, like, in real life. But like we just talked effortlessly. I mean, I felt it was effortless. I hope you probably thought it was effortless.

Erica Hanna 1:10:09
I thought was terrible.

Tim Bornholdt 1:10:10
Oh my god, I knew it

Erica Hanna 1:10:14
It made me want to puke rainbows, you know.

Tim Bornholdt 1:10:17
Nice. There's the plug.

Erica Hanna 1:10:22
It's been an awesome, you're great. Yeah.

Tim Bornholdt 1:10:24
And all of this is, it's all skills that you can learn and practice and get better at and that's at the end of the day, if you want to be able to sell an app or sell a product or whatever, it's just get better at these soft skills. It's way more important than whatever tools you're using, or you know, how you're actually, you know, making the conversation happen.

Erica Hanna 1:10:42
It really is and it's all about just jumping, right, jumping and doing it. I think, just like you said, with your podcast, I'm assuming it's not like you'd taken like some super in depth podcasting course. Right? Like, you did it. And you even said, like, you started out one way, which was probably already great. And then you've just improved, the more that you've done it and it's just like anything. I think that's part of why video is so hard for people is because they're learning a skill as an adult, right? And it's like, anything you learn as an adult is harder. Like, you know, if I try to learn how to speak French right now, it'd be a lot harder than if I was, you know, seven. And we just have to be able to, you know, it's like cut yourself some slack. Just create something cool. And just for the sake of creating, you know.

Tim Bornholdt 1:11:44
I love it. I won't be too offended that I went through eight years of podcasting school to become Dr. Tim Bornholdt.

Erica Hanna 1:11:52
We'll just call you Doctor Podcast.

Tim Bornholdt 1:11:59
You're on the line with Dr. Podcast. This has been so much fun, I want to give you a chance to plug some stuff and tell people how they can get in touch with you, especially if they want to have this kind of mindset adopted into how they're telling their stories through the wonderful tools that video provides us.

Erica Hanna 1:12:19
Sure. My website is pukerainbows.com, spelled exactly how it sounds. PukeRainbows.com. My email is Erica@pukerainbows.com. I am on all the socials. So I'm out there. It's pretty easy to find me. Usually my username is meet, like nice to meet you, Meet Erica. And yeah, as far as stuff coming up, I am working on taking my two most popular classes that I teach, which would be my smartphone video class and my how to connect via video class, which is one that has just been recently gangbusters, right? Like people want to know how to really maximize that connection via video conferencing, whether they're looking for a new job, whether they're, you know, interviewing somebody via Zoom, whether they're a professor, or I've had a ton of people in sales take that course as well, because they're doing all of these Zoom calls. So yeah, I'm turning both of those in the online classes right now, which is pretty fun. And then I also have a free download for your listeners for 50 free video ideas. So that'll get them started on the content train. And it'll also sign you up for my newsletter, which is few and far between, I think maybe once a month, if that.

Tim Bornholdt 1:13:59
Sounds familiar.

Erica Hanna 1:14:00
I'm definitely not spamming anyone.

Tim Bornholdt 1:14:03
And we'll make sure we link to that in the show notes too, so that people can find that. Erica, thank you so much for joining me today. This was great.

Erica Hanna 1:14:16
Thank you. It was so much fun. I really enjoy it and I thank you for doing what you do.

Tim Bornholdt 1:14:24
A big thanks to Erica Hanna for joining me today on the podcast. You can learn more about Erica and her services at pukerainbows.com.

Show notes for this episode can be found at constantvariables.co. You can get in touch with us by emailing Hello@constantvariables.co. I'm @TimBornholdt on Twitter and the show is @CV_podcast. Today's episode was produced by Jenny Karkowski and edited by the impeccable Jordan Daoust.

If you have a minute quick before you leave, we would also love it if you left a review for us on the apple podcast app. It shouldn't take much time at all. And it does seriously help people find our show. So just head to constantvariables.co/review, and we'll link you right there. This episode was brought to you by The Jed Mahonis Group. If you're looking for a technical team who can help make sense of mobile software development, give us a shout at jmg.mn.